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Discussion in 'Drivetrain' started by kevinkyang, Feb 20, 2009.
i was wondering if the 3sge tranny could fit in my 3sfe?
bolt right up, starter wont fit though...
most people prefer the fe tranny than the ge cuz of the starter placement. y do you want to switch?
Depends, what 3SGE gearbox do you want to fit. All 3SGE gboxes should fit your motor, however the only one that will bolt on and work is an S54 from either an ST182 or ST202, or from a 3SGE powered MR2 (note that the MR2 will require FWD linkages and mods to get the FWD linkages on however)
You can use a gen 1 3SGE gearbox from an ST162 however the problem is it won't have the hole to bolt up your exhaust side starter, it is cast as a blank. I have heard of people machining this out before to the standard FE gearbox specs, and it worked fine. The other option is to use the complete flywheel and starter assembly from a 3SGE, but you may have exhaust issues with it fouling on the starter. Driveshafts from either should have the same splines, and I'm 90% sure the clutches will be the same.
Best option is to find a later 3SGE gearbox, or machine the hole in an earlier one. The other option is a S54 gearbox from either a Celica or Camry with an S54, the ratio on all the ones I've seen are 3.944, which is pretty much half way between the GE's 4.176 and the 3SFE's 3.7xx and might be a good compromise
well, i wanted to put it in to get a little more boost out of my ST. but, if its going to be a big fix then i'm not too sure. is there anyway i can make it fit with doing a complete motor swap because in california we have to pass smog.
if your cars a 5- speed your running the c-52 trannie. (commute, 5, case code, and 2, trannie generation code) the gears are IDENTICAL to the s-53, (sport, 5, housing code, 3, thrid generation trannie) just the final drives are different, the 53 has a higher top end (not by much) but gives a bit of accel to do it. if you want off the line speed, stick with your trannie. if you want top end, s-53/ 54 is your bet. the s-53 came only on the 3sge up till 89 (in the celicas case) the next gen of that trannie was the s-54 for the 5th gen celi's . any trannie will fit your engine,(but the starter is an issue in some cases) as long as it has a "S" in the engine code. ie 3S-fe 3S-ge 3S-gte ect..... this may help you out, i figured all this out a while back... enjoy.....
Are you sure on the 3SFE gearbox being a C52? Its always referred to as a low-ratio S53 on the aussie boards? :?
hmm it may be different across the pond, ive never heard of a low ratio -s-53, but the c-52 does have the lower final drive, so i can see where it gets the name..
It could well be that it is a C52 over here as well, I'm not sure as I've never had anything to do with 3SFE's or there related drive train components, the majority of 162s over here are SX (aka GTS) spec, so you hardly ever see 3SFE powered ones around.
there common as dirt over here, the fe came in the celica and camry. the 5s-fe also came in later generation camry's and celicas. there is the odd gts (sx) over here that does in fact have the lagging 3s-fe power plant. some 86 gt models came with the dreaded 2s-e sohc engine, with about as much balls as a lawnmower on naphtha. i did some looking into it, over there the toyota vista and carina of the same years, should also be fitted with the 3sfe engine.
I'm not sure if we got Vista's or Carina's here, but we definitely did get the Camry over here with a 3SFE. We also got the 5SFE in later Camry's and 5th gen onwards Celi's.
Sucks about you guys getting 2S-E's and not many 3SGE's. I forget the figures, but I heard it mentioned once that we got 60% SX's, the rest being ST's. Manual celi's are also easy to find too
the vista and carina were never sold here (as far as i know) i know alltrac (gt4) numbers were not very high here. and every gt (st) model ive seen has been an automatic. including my first gt celi' the only ones ive seen 5-speed are the gts and alltrac models. i know 5-speed gt's exist but i have yet to see any.
well thanks for the help guys. so then, about the starter, how would i fix that problem?
you can either cut and drill the holes out, or do what i did and swap the bellhousing...either way it has to come off, cause the holes wont drill straight with it attached... look at my cars thread. i have pics of my swap on pg 1
^ Alot of work for little gain.
If there's nothing actually "wrong" with it, I'd suggest to do or have a timing advance done for you and run with prem gas. In addition, If you haven't done it already and think you can get away with it, do the intake/header/mod gt-s exaust and totally clean the TB. IMO, you'd get waaay more out of those mods that would any kind of tranny swap.
dang thanks. well in NY and any other place, do you guys have smog regulations as strict as CA(california)???
it is alot of work, and its not for a noob to take on. but you have to think, you can squeeze a few more hp out of the engine sure, that doesnt mean it will have anything higher on the top end. it may get there a bit quicker but it can only go to the max that trannie is ment to wind up to. imo on the track that extra 20kmh on my top end can mean the difference between winning and losing.
Unfortunately, Cali is probably the most strict due to population, find a guy near you and find out what you guys can get away with and go from there. Most of us can pull off more due to less strict regs.
If you want to pull the trigger either way, I'll break it down according to difficulty/skill.
*1) After-market Intake = easy
2) After-market Header (and maybe DP if necessary for header) = easy
*3) Full stock exhaust swap w/ Cat, Pipes (1.75 in. GT/ST > GT-S 2.25 in.) & the twin tip Muf = moderate - requires some welding/bend modifications, but that's about it.
*4) FULL ignition tune-up (cap/rotor/wires/plugs) = easy
*5) Timing advance = expert (due to tools and experience required).
GT/ST's are quite limited due to the 3sfe platform, I've done most of the above and the 'vert runs better than it ever did :mrgreen: Much thanks goes to everyone here 8)
As for the tranny swap I've personally never considered it, but that's only because I'm heading towards a full swap in the near future.
Hope this helps some.
shoot. lucky. i wish i could do a full on swap, but not now. i'm only asking b/c my tranny is goin out and my clutch is slippin too. so, when i was going to replace all that i was going to put the gt in, oh well. i'll just go 3sfe. for now.
aaahhh I see, so it's on it's way out - most unfortunate. Not sure if a tranny flush/replace with syncromesh will help, but it may buy you sometime. You might as well upgrade the clutch as opposed to just putting another stocker in.