have spark but still wont start

Discussion in 'Diagnosis/Help' started by scottjackson1209, Aug 12, 2011.

  1. scottjackson1209

    scottjackson1209 Well-Known Member Donated!

    i have a 1988 Celica GT Convertible that i cant get to start....i finally got spark but now i cant get it to start....even with starter fluid....also i dont hear the fuel pump come on when i turn the key to the on position unless i bridge fp and b+ at the diagnosis connector....not sure if it matters but when i bridge e1 and t to pull codes my cel flashes non stop and more rapidly than it does normally....
     
  2. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    How did you fix the distributor?

    I can't hear any of my pumps, loosen the banjo bolt on the start injector and see if fuel leaks out.

    I'd start by checking fuses (esp EFI under the footwell) and re-connecting all plugs
    Sounds like a fuse or bad connection somewhere
     
  3. scottjackson1209

    scottjackson1209 Well-Known Member Donated!

    i ended up not having a good ground to the firewall with the ignitor....that was the only problem....so easy to figure out......i have checked all the fuses, where is the start injector and what is the banjo bolt...kinda new to these engines. also does anyone have a picture of all the relays and what they are for.....the writing on my cover under the hood is all worn off.
     
  4. ST165-2765

    ST165-2765 Well-Known Member Donated!

    Whats the history of this car ? Have you ever seen it running ?

    Heres some elctrical info
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The cold start injector is on your intake manifold, a banjo bolt is a hollow bolt
    that is used to connect your fuel line to the injector, in the following picture
    they call it a Union Bolt. You just want to loosen it a little bit to see if gas
    leaks out.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. scottjackson1209

    scottjackson1209 Well-Known Member Donated!

    thanks so much for all your help....i picked the car up for $100.00 and drove it home....apparently the gear box had no fluid and the transmission seized up :shock so i replaced the transmission and had it running for a day then the timing belt broke....one of my friends said it was the ignitor and he could fix it so he took the ignitor apart and ruined it! :aargh anyway i replaced the timing belt and the ignitor and thats where i am at now....how can i tell what engine i have? the hood is off a junk yard car so i dont trust the label on that.
     
  6. ST165-2765

    ST165-2765 Well-Known Member Donated!

    If you have a 3sfe engine the intake manifold should say EFI
    and the valve covers should say TOYOTA 2000 16 VALVE
    [​IMG]

    If you have a 3sge engine the intake manifold should say T-VIS
    and the valve covers should say TOYOTA 2000 TWIN CAM 16
    [​IMG]
     
  7. scottjackson1209

    scottjackson1209 Well-Known Member Donated!

    well i guess i have the 3sfe then. once again thanks for all your help.
     
  8. scottjackson1209

    scottjackson1209 Well-Known Member Donated!

    okay so i loosened the banjo bolt on the cold start injector and turned the key and nothing happened, so i turned it off and bridged b+ and fp and turned the key and fuel shot out. so if there is fuel into the intake manifold why wont it start if i have spark? going to check all the relays hopefully tonight. i have a newborn baby so it sometimes takes a while to getting stuff done with the car. will update you with what i find.
     
  9. ST165-2765

    ST165-2765 Well-Known Member Donated!

    You do not know if their is fuel in the intake manifold or not all you know so far is that
    - to get fuel to the injector you have to bridge B+ & FP and that doesn't mean fuel
    is going through the injector into the intake manifold it just means fuel is getting as
    far as the injector. Even if your cold start injector is working I don't think it will get
    the car started by itself, its just designed to deliver extra fuel at startup in addition
    to the 4 injectors that deliver fuel dirrectly into the cylinders
    (in case your wondering that +'ve 12v -->B+ , fuel pump -->FP)

    Since you have to bridge B+ & FP to get the fuel pump to work their is definetely an
    electrical issue and most likely the injectors arn't getting power so most likely you have
    a blown fuse.

    So inside the car I'd be checking fuses # 10,12 & 14
    [​IMG]

    and in the engine bay I'd be checking fuse # 3 and it could also be relays A & B
    [​IMG]

    So probably if you can get the fuel pump to work normally (ie without bridging it)
    then most likely that will also solve any other problems
     
  10. scottjackson1209

    scottjackson1209 Well-Known Member Donated!

    okay so one step further...the cold start injector does squirt fuel only when i crank it though so my pump is working...so i pulled my spark plugs and they are dry....so something with my injectors? i've sprayed tons of starter fluid in and they are still dry....i also checked all my relays (turned the key on and pulled them out to see if they click when you take them off and put them back on) and all the ones you told me to check click....i also checked the circut opening relay underneath the dash and it doesnt make a sound...any way any of you could see if yours does with the key in the on position.
     
  11. ST165-2765

    ST165-2765 Well-Known Member Donated!

    How are you getting the starter fluid into the engine ?
    Through the air flow meter or through the throttle body ?

    Heres how to test your circuit opening relay
    [​IMG]
     
  12. scottjackson1209

    scottjackson1209 Well-Known Member Donated!

    i actually removed the airflow meter and filter and am spraying directly into the intake manifold. also i have to be honest i dont really know how to use a voltmeter. i know that the upside down horseshoe is ohms or resistance but i dont know what setting of ohms to use for this. i also have no idea how to use any other settings. never had to deal w/ electronic problems before this.
     
  13. ST165-2765

    ST165-2765 Well-Known Member Donated!

    Yeah thats what I thought.....thats why I asked that question....
    I get these psychic visions of what you are doing :eek:hnoes

    You have to have the air flow meter attached to the throttle body via that black rubber tube
    and you also have to have the air flow meter pluged in. The car definetely wont start without that.
     
  14. scottjackson1209

    scottjackson1209 Well-Known Member Donated!

    it was still attached. i was just thinking that maybe it would fire....but now i just realized that it measures the air and controls how much fuel to inject so if it thought that there was no air it wouldnt inject ANY fuel....correct?
     
  15. ST165-2765

    ST165-2765 Well-Known Member Donated!

    It does measure air flow but I don't know how much control over the injectors it has
    the ECU will definetely control the injectors and info from the AFM and throttle body
    will play a big part in the ECU's signals to the injectors.

    The cold start injector will bypass all that I'm guessing as it takes its signal from the
    starter circuit. The cold start injector is also a continous spray for as long as your
    cranking the engine.

    Some other info that may be useful. Your 4 cylinder injectors are attached to a fuel
    rail, and your cold start injector also receives fuel from the rail so if your cold start
    injector is getting fuel then your 4 cylinder injectors are also getting fuel.

    So hook up everything properly and hopefully I won't have to teach you how to use
    an ohm meter
     
  16. scottjackson1209

    scottjackson1209 Well-Known Member Donated!

    So do you have any advice for the voltmeter? Which settings do I use for the tests you posted?
     
  17. ST165-2765

    ST165-2765 Well-Known Member Donated!

    I think if you get everything hooked up right in the engine bay then the car will start all you did was
    change a timing belt, theirs no reall wires over there that you could have removed that would prevent
    the car from starting so if you get the AFM hooked up hopefully she'll fire up
     
  18. scottjackson1209

    scottjackson1209 Well-Known Member Donated!

    Okay so I put everything back together and still nothing....still haven't had time to check timing. Hopefully I can get around to that tomorrow. There is a little indent on the crank pu pully that I line up with the 0 for it to be at tdc right?
     
  19. ST165-2765

    ST165-2765 Well-Known Member Donated!

    Your probably 180 degrees out on the timing. It takes 2 revolutions of the crankshaft
    to turn the timing gear 1 revolution.

    Here you can faintly see the white grove on the crankshaft pully pretty
    much lined up with the zero.
    [​IMG]

    But when we check the timing gear its pointing in the wrong dirrection
    [​IMG]

    So if I go and rotate the crankshaft 1 full revolution I'm back to pointing at zero again
    [​IMG]

    And looking back up on top I'm now pointing in the right dirrection
    so set your timing wheel like this, loosen the belt off and rotate the crankshaft 1 full turn
    [​IMG]
     
  20. scottjackson1209

    scottjackson1209 Well-Known Member Donated!

    GOT IT RUNNING!!!! timing was off...so now it runs but is spewing smoke and when i hit the gas it bogs down...idles really rough too. so i think i just need to adjust my timing a bit. how do i do that? i noticed a bolt in a slot under the distributor and loosened and tried to turn it that way but it wouldnt move. am i doing it right? thanks for all your help!!!
     

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