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How do you "Burp" the cooling system (3S GE)?

Discussion in 'Diagnosis/Help' started by vicdat, Apr 6, 2012.

  1. jwagner162

    jwagner162 Well-Known Member Donated!

    I think i got it....bad radiator cap!!!!!

    -if its allowed to leak a small amount of air back into the system youll never be "burped". the super heated air/steam will be hotter than the coolant. iirc this was one of my first issues with 09. and i had some wierd issues because of it. go grab a new one!!!!
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2012
  2. vicdat

    vicdat Well-Known Member

    I'm going to do a through backflush tomorrow. Maybe there's some crud down in the bottom of the rad or heater...
     
  3. eNtraxGT88

    eNtraxGT88 Well-Known Member Donated!

    jwagner has a point. the radiator cap seems to give me trouble from time to time. when it's not doing it's job i get air in my upper rad and rad hose and my temps go just a little past halfway, when i see my temp gauge like this i simply fill it up, then it will stay at below middle!
     
  4. vicdat

    vicdat Well-Known Member

    O'K I'll grab a new cap first thing AM...

    Vicdat
     
  5. jwagner162

    jwagner162 Well-Known Member Donated!

    yep, so if you have a bad cap and you warm the motor the fluid expands. when the motor cools itll pull air in. when you go to re-start from cold you would then have air in the system. i suppose it could also pull air in during certain conditions while at operating temp.
    -like i said before any air in the system will be super heated steam. anytime air went through the water neck you and the ecu would get high readings that could cause a whole host of issues.

    -2 more things. make sure you do "burp" the system properly once you have the new cap, and treat it as youve just replaced the coolant....so keep toping the overflow tank. the other thing check the hose to the overflow tank, the tank cap and hose inside of it. make sure the hose isnt connected to the wrong side of the cap or pluged up or has holes.

    -pretty sure this will get you there.
     
  6. eNtraxGT88

    eNtraxGT88 Well-Known Member Donated!

    ^ another method of 'burping' that works for me is putting the cap on maybe halfway, then squeezing the upper hose continuously, it acts as a vacuum to get coolant from the overflow tank, just make sure that the coolant bottle is full!
     
  7. vicdat

    vicdat Well-Known Member

    At this point I sincerely doubt if it is an air issue, or even anything mechanical...
    When I start it up cold if fires right up and runs smooth, quiet and idles good. For about 5 to 10 mins while warming-up it runs great. THEN the temp guage hits jusy over halfway, and everry time I rev it up it spikes slightly up and will stat up if I rev it up.It actually almost mimics the tach with spikes...and of course when it is running in the upper temp ranges the engine feels like it has a miss. I don't think that there is any air in it. I re-flushed but didn't see any crud, I also drilled a small hole in T-stat, but no difference. Maybe one of the water lines to or from the intake is clogged (I doubt it though...)
    When I shut off the engine immediately after these occurences and check the temp gauge it never reads more than half.
    Could the radiator fan switch be bad and somehow send the computer into a "limp mode" ?

    Vicdat
     
  8. ST165-2765

    ST165-2765 Well-Known Member Donated!

    I don't think so, I have bypassed the sensor and fan switch and run my fans constantly.
    If your computer was going into limp mode I would have to guess that your check engine
    light would be coming on so if the bulb is good and your not getting a check engine light
    then I don't think your ECU is going into limp mode.
     
  9. jwagner162

    jwagner162 Well-Known Member Donated!

    just wondering, did you change the cap?

    -sorry i feel like where failing you. something like this is super hard to diagnose via the internet. from only your above description and not the whole thread i would think maybe an injector issue. youd have enough fuel at cold start, once the cold start shut off youd be "missing" on 1 of the cylinders. which ever has the bad injector. this would also cause temp issues on a single cylinder but i wouldnt think it would be immediatly seen on the gauge.....maybe if it was cylinder 4???

    -i would say you should test the resistance of the injectors to see if there electrically sound.

    -are you able to take a pic of your spark plugs for us?

    -it could even be a combo of things. say the alt is starting to go so all the gauges "surge" with revs. and you have a "mis" from a bad injector or plug. i know ive had plugs that look brand new but dont work.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2012
  10. vicdat

    vicdat Well-Known Member

    So I fired her up tonight and drove around my neighborhood a bit. Once it got to halfway on the temp I headed home as it slowly crept up. When I got to my driveway and shut it off I noticed for the first time that when I turned on the key to check the temp that it went back up to the red. I checked the rad hoses and the upper was hot and the bottom was stone cold...I'm thinking bad AutoZone T-stat. Should I go and get a factory (two-stage) thermostat from the local stealership tomorrow???? Will this finally be the end of this torture?
    Tune in tomorrow...same Bat-time; same Bat-channel...
     
  11. ST165-2765

    ST165-2765 Well-Known Member Donated!

    Well you've allready tried 2 thermostats and also tested them in a pot of water so I
    will go back to my page 1 suggestion and once again highly recommend removing the
    thermostat totally so that you are guaranteed that the thermostat is or is not the problem
     
  12. Spiderman

    Spiderman Well-Known Member

    Yup, remove the thermostat and go from there.


    I know this will sound simplistic and obvious but when you eventually find the issue, make sure the radiator overflow bottle is at the proper level and make sure the overflow hose is in good nick and long enough so that when the engine cools it can suck back the overflow with minimal air intake and fluid to spare.
     
  13. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    Sounds like your radiator is blocked - take it out and flush it properly
    Also check for cracks and see if it's leaking under pressure
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2012
  14. vicdat

    vicdat Well-Known Member

    I'm installing a brand new radiator as we speak...
     
  15. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    If your rad is blocked I can guarantee the heater is too, you will need to run radiator flush before flushing the entire system aggresively with a hose
     
  16. vicdat

    vicdat Well-Known Member

    UPDATE:
    Today I drove her around and discovered that it's not spiking when the AC is on; it stays just slightly below half and runs perfect. With the air off it creeps up and stays about 3\4 or more with occasional higher spikes especially if the engine is reved higher (the spikes will almost mimic the tach). At theses times the fans are not coming on for very long. What would cause the fans to come on later and not for a long enough time to be effective?
     
  17. eNtraxGT88

    eNtraxGT88 Well-Known Member Donated!

    your car is so weird! i'm guessing as soon as your discovered the a/c "fix" you've tried to drive it hard? if the temps have been stable with a/c on and driving really hard, then it sounds like you're really close to sorting this out. it would have to be electrical for sure...fan-related?

    even better, drive without the A/C on, let the temp creep up past halfway, then turn on the A/C and see if it comes back down.
     
  18. vicdat

    vicdat Well-Known Member

    UPDATE: Today I had a pretty reputable local Toy Wrench diagnose my problem. He's sure that the cluster is bad...I'm gonna have to go to the boneyard again. The one I need must be for automatic with ECT. These are hard to find so if anyone has that particular one I could use it...
     
  19. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    All non JDM auto's are ECT, shouldn't be hard to find.

    Best is to borrow an IR gun and compare the temps to what the gauges are saying, I've had dicy gauges before - usually it's only one so easy to diagnose.
    The speedo, oil, water, fuel, volt gauges are common to all models so those you can take from any car.
    Some have yellow needles and others are orange, try to keep them the same

    If gauges are acting up in pairs I'd be inclined to suspect a faulty earth somewhere in the dash harness
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2012
  20. vicdat

    vicdat Well-Known Member

    OK so this morning when my mechanic ran a crapload of tests he said the cluster was bad because there was a problem in the voltage regulation going to the instrument. But he also said that the coolant sensor that I got from AutoZone was the wrong one and it was reading the incorrect resistance or some other such hyperbolie...anyway when I got home I fished-out the old sensor annd cleaned of all the old tarnish and residue. I reinstalled it and have been driving it all day long with no issues; stays just below halfway like god intended. The end; good night now!

    Thanks guys for all your help and suggestions...

    Vicdat
     

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