Clutch is loose to the floor & very hard to shift

Discussion in 'Diagnosis/Help' started by Guest, Dec 11, 2007.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I have a 1988 Celica GT with 217500 miles. I barely made it home from work today -- the clutch is really loose -- it goes about 2/3 of the way with no resistance at all. I can barely shift gears. Of course, I can always get it into first gear by turning the car off and then turning it on again. If I turn it off, put it in first gear, and then turn it on, the car starts to roll forward almost as soon as I start lifting my foot off the clutch. The bite is almost instantaneous. How can I diagnose this?

    Slave cylinder? Master cylinder? The clutch itself? Air in the lines? All of the above? Something else entirely?
     
  2. ST165-2765

    ST165-2765 Well-Known Member Donated!

    If you pump the clutch pedal a few times does it build up any pressure. If this all of a sudden just happened I would try bleeding the lines. Have you checked the clutch master cylinder reservoir to see if your low on fluid.
     
  3. mephtar

    mephtar Well-Known Member

    possible pedal issue, hows the fluid level? im sure someone on here know a boat load more than me about something like that tho.
     
  4. Rick89GTS

    Rick89GTS Well-Known Member Moderator Donated!

    Yep, I agree with the guys.
    It's most likely a leak, low fluid or air got in the system somehow.
    Check the clutch slave (on the tranny housing) and the clutch master cylinder for tell tale signs of leakage.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    it's too dark now to check the fluid. i'll try in the morning and report back. thanks.

    an unrelated aside: why do so many of the people who still drive these cars live in canada?
     
  6. mephtar

    mephtar Well-Known Member

    good question, maybe it had something to do witht he economy 20 years ago
     
  7. ST165-2765

    ST165-2765 Well-Known Member Donated!

    20 years ago not to many Americans wanted to be seen driving around in a Toyota.
     
  8. Rick89GTS

    Rick89GTS Well-Known Member Moderator Donated!

    I read somewhere once that Americans tend to upgrade their cars more frequently than Canadians and normally have more than one car to their name. Canadians tend to hold onto their cars longer. Or maybe we just like these 4th Gens :wink:
     
  9. 86GTMonkey

    86GTMonkey Well-Known Member

    Because Canadians actually have respect for well built old cars, while americans look down on anything that doesn't have 50 cup holders and get 2 miles per gallon. Short answer: most Americans are dunderfucks when it comes to cars.

    Good luck with the clutch issue.
     
  10. CrazyAchmed

    CrazyAchmed Well-Known Member Donated!

    As an American who has bought and sold 9+ vehicles in less than 6 years I agree with that. (I still own 2 Alltrac, 1 Tundra, 1 Laser (still for sale), 1 Harley and might aswell own 1 Bronco)

    Sold 1 86 Chevy Silverado, 1 84 Chevy Camaro, 1 82 Ford F-100,
     
  11. ST165-2765

    ST165-2765 Well-Known Member Donated!

    I'm guessing a GT has a 3sfe engine in it and if it does here is the section from the Toyota manual on clutches

    ST162 Clutch
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    yes, i have the 3sfe engine. thanks for the images.
     
  13. Youds

    Youds Well-Known Member

    i would also say check fluid and have a good feeling its the slave cylinder :)
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ok so i checked the clutch fluid and it's completely dry. there is a disc in there that is usually floating on top of the fluid but it's just in there by itself.

    i looked at the slave cylinder at autozone.com and it's a part that costs less than $30. why is this typically a several hundred dollar repair? is there a lot of labor involved to get to the part?
     
  15. ST165-2765

    ST165-2765 Well-Known Member Donated!

    Exact same thing happened to me this summer. I filled the reservoir back up and bled the system. I check the reservoir every time I open the hood now but since the summer it has remained full. So I don't know where the fluid went but it appears to have been a fluke and fixed itself. Perhaps a bit of dirt that flushed its way through the system. The old fluid was pretty dirty when I bled the system so I flushed it out until clean fluid was being bled out.

    Toyota's seem to be able to fix themselves occasionally as I was driving my old GTS one very cold winter day and after about half an hour of highway driving I noticed my oil pressure going down so I pulled over to see a steady stream of oil pouring out the crankshaft main oil seal, I would guess about a cup a minute so I poured more oil into the engine and turned around to go back home and by the time I got home I had replaced about 3 litres of oil but once home it did not leak anymore. I probably put another 50,000 km on that car and never had it leak oil again.

    So try bleeding the system and see how long it holds fluid. It may be a cheap fix.
     
  16. Rick89GTS

    Rick89GTS Well-Known Member Moderator Donated!

    Nope. Clutch slave cylinder is one of the easier things to repair; it's right on front of the tranny housing. The clutch master cylinder is a bit more labour intensive but still easily doable for DIY'ers.

    Labour rates are $80 - $100 per hour here. So if you can't DIY, you're paying for someone else's time and skill, pure and simple.
     
  17. underscore

    underscore Well-Known Member

    my 5th gen did this with an oil leak. I was sold it with a mild leak, kept topping it up and topped it up before a long highway trip, accidentally went a little high but I figured it would just leak out by the time I got there. go there and the oil hadn't dropped at all. came back no drop. This was at the end of August and I still haven't lost any oil. I'm so confused but very happy, I'm also nervous to clean off the bottom of my engine.
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    okay so i went out this morning and added DOT3 brake fluid to the empty reservoir. i filled it to the line, pumped the clutch a bit and fired up the engine. clutch pressure was restored. i had some cardboard under the body of the car to see where the leak would be occurring but alas, nothing leaked out. i drove it around the neighborhood with no problems. clutch fluid remains full.

    i did not bleed the fluid because i have no idea how to do this. conceptually, i understand the idea. but i woudln't be able to tell any of the parts from anything else. does the car need to be jacked up to do this?

    anyway, it appears to be fixed for the moment but i'm concerned. specifically, i do not understand:

    1. why the fluid leaked out previusly if it's not leaking out now. one would think that if there was a leak large enough to empty out the entire reservoir (leaving the disc that is supposed to be floating in fluid just sitting in the bottom of the tank) that adding more fluid would just cause the leak to happen again.


    2. why there isn't air in the line that needs to be removed by bleeding it. (maybe there is; but if this was the case, woudln't i have problems while driving?)

    comments?
     
  19. mephtar

    mephtar Well-Known Member

    air might have bleed out through the leak (if there is one), keep an eye on it
     
  20. ST165-2765

    ST165-2765 Well-Known Member Donated!

    Well underscore's post just above your post which quotes one of my earlier posts shows you 3 examples of leaks that have mysteriously fixed themselves. One on my car that was exactly the same as your clutch leak and like I said it has been several months since that happened.

    So my guess for the missing fluid (question # 1) is some dirt/rust in the system which worked it's way past a seal. While it was in the seal the system leaked but the leak itself helped flush the dirt past the seal and you have a properly functioning clutch system again.

    For question # 2 there probably is some air in the line but not enough to cause problems with the clutch. The reservoir is the high point in the system so any air that did get into the line is not going to naturally work its way through the system but stay at the top near the master cylinder so it may be possible that the new fluid you added displaced any air in the system.

    One thing to note is that this system is only operating (under pressure) while the clutch pedal is depressed so that is the only time you would ever have a leak.

    Bleeding the system is really easy. You have a 3sfe engine so the slave cylinder(the manual calls it a clutch release cylinder) should be just under and in front of your starter. To bleed the system place a length of clear rubber tubing (tubing should fit tightly) over the bleeder screw to catch the brake fluid and run it into a jar.

    4 Steps
    1) press the clutch pedal to the floor and keep it there
    2) loosen the bleeder screw (if your hose is clear you should see some fluid coming out or air)
    3) tighten the bleeder screw (if the hose is clear wait until no more fluid comes out if the hose is not clear wait a couple seconds after loosening the bleeder screw before tightening it. The pressure in the system will force the fuild out quickly so you don't have to leave the bleeder screw loose very long)
    4) release clutch pedal and check the level of fluid in the reservoir and add more if necessary.

    Go back to step 1 and repeat the process over again. You should do it until you do not see any more bubbles coming out with the brake fluid. At the beginning you may not see any bubbles coming out with the fluid it all depends where abouts the air is in the system. For that reason I bled my system until I saw clean new brake fluid beeing bled out, and like I said before the old fluid was pretty dirty/rusty so a good flushing of the system didn"t hurt any and a container of brake fluid is pretty cheap.
     

Share This Page