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TRD Ferguson - Race Car

Discussion in 'Your 4th Gen beauty' started by TRD Ferguson, Aug 9, 2012.

  1. just_ace

    just_ace Well-Known Member

    Ah, well those bypass hoses are part of what the heater core needs.

    So I guesd the question is how much headroom does the cooling system allow for if for some reason the motor starts generating more heat than normal for whatever reason, or if say the radiator gets compromised/air flow blocked.

    At least you wont need to worry much about overheating in stand still traffic, just pit stops.

    With the ac condensor removed youll have better flow across the rad, fit a larger ally rad will give you better cooling and more capacity and removal of thermostat should give you more cooling than you need.

    Increasing the capacity wil help you in the event of loosing coolant for whatever reason. Itll allow you to run longer before too much coolant is lost, or long enough to get youback to pits to fix etc.
     
  2. just_ace

    just_ace Well-Known Member

    What are you doing about oil cooling?
     
  3. TRD Ferguson

    TRD Ferguson Well-Known Member

    Nothing additional at the moment. That counts as an upgrade and we are debating what upgrades to use. We have around $75 of upgrade wiggle-room, so we have to be stingy. Our thoughts were with a stiffer spring kit to go with our new oem shocks with larger bump stops on them. I know this sounds like performance, but if we can handle better and scrub the tires less while cornering, the longer we can go before having to pit to let the tires cool.

    Typically race tires don't have this problem, but the chump series specifies that the tires need to have a treadware of at least 190 and suitable for road driving, so racing slicks or semi-slicks are not an option.

    Aside from making a large modification I have never added an oil cooler. On the 3S-FE is there something close to a bolt on we can use? Heh... we also tossed around the idea of welding some fins on the bottom of the oil pan...
     
  4. just_ace

    just_ace Well-Known Member

    There are a couple of factory options. The gen2 ge and gtes and 5sfes had various block mounted oil coolers which used the coolant to maintain its temperature.

    Ive seen pics of a european oil cooler off the sump I believe which was cooled via air.

    Id at least look for a 2nd hand oil cooler to mount some way. Oil cooling would be just as important as engine coolant
     
  5. TRD Ferguson

    TRD Ferguson Well-Known Member

    Does anybody have a diagram of what the 5S-FE oil cooler looks like? I am trying to find one at a junkyard and I cannot, so I am wanting to find something aftermarket that looks relatively stock. From what I have seen, it is an adapter that fits between the oil filter and the block. Is this right?


    Also, does anybody have the part numbers for the two main coolant hoses as well as the two smaller ones that run to the intake manifold that I have seen people list as ones that have failed?

    Thanks!
     
  6. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    Pic I have already posted shows the housing, you will need the waterpipe as well
    This is the other side
    [​IMG]

    For the hoses I use silicone ebay hoses, cheaper, prettier, and more robust
    Pic shows both cooler hoses, waterpipes and silicone water hoses
    [​IMG]

    It may be hard to spot as stock there is a cover hiding the pipes
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The cooler Ace mentioned I think was only fitted to Euro GE models, it requires using a turbo sump.
    Your FE coolers may be a little different looking but this setup was used on gen2 GE and most JDM 4S/5S motors.
    Later types have the return line going to a modified waterpump, that would require a waterpump housing change as well as the thermostat and the inlets don't have a fan switch location point.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2012
  7. TRD Ferguson

    TRD Ferguson Well-Known Member

    Speaking of hoses, are those hoses approved for fuel? I need the filler breather hose and the rubber line to charcoal canister
     
  8. just_ace

    just_ace Well-Known Member

    the 5sfe pipes are slightly closer to the oil filter/cooler. if you were in aus you could have this set.

    try and get the bypass pipes of a 3s/5s from late 92+ they changed them to SS, then they won't be corroded to buggery.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2012
  9. TRD Ferguson

    TRD Ferguson Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the tip, those look nice!
     
  10. ST165-2765

    ST165-2765 Well-Known Member Donated!

    When you first start your car it idles higher because the engine is cold but as the engine warms up
    it idles slower. If you don't use a thermostat the engine will never warm up and I don't think your
    going to get the best performance while the ECU* thinks the engine is cold.

    The 89 GTS I just bought didn't have a thermostat in it and I drove it for 200 km to get it home so
    you can run the car without 1 but the engine is designed to run at a certain temp and without a
    thermostat your definetly going to be running the engine cold.

    If your worried about overheating the best thing you can do is put a new water pump in the engine.
    -check your hoses and make sure your clamps are all good, get silicone hoses from ebay less than $40
    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/TOYOTA-CELIC...rcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cca69febb
    -keep your heater and check its hoses/clamps, blasting it at full heat will help the rad out a bit
    -if you have AC get rid of it and remove the AC radiator

    if you have the black plastic lip under the bumper add it back, yellow arrow. Chances are you don't
    have the deflector piece but you could make something up. Theres a piece of plastic that goes from
    the bottom of the black plastic lip to the crossrail under the rad and acts like a scoop to channel
    alot more air into the rad.
    [​IMG]

    here you can see where the deflector connects under the rad
    [​IMG]

    On the passenger side you could add an aftermarket pusher fan I put them on my cars
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    make sure you have heat shields on your exhaust manifold/downpipe, especially your downpipe
    [​IMG]
     
  11. MattC

    MattC Well-Known Member Donated!

    Sorry, bit late into this thread. Don't know if it's the same as the 5S cooler, but here's a pic of the Gen 3 3S-GE oil cooler

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    That gen 3 cooler won't work without the pipes and water pump housing. I don't think they sold gen3's in the USA.

    I have a spare FE type cooler & pipes, I also have some spare front spoilers (one is a solid type with no vents) - just waiting on shipping quotes as they are too long to post

    Re the deflector plates - they are near impossible to find, I have made my own using aluminium sheet.
     
  13. TRD Ferguson

    TRD Ferguson Well-Known Member

    RI actually have all of those plastic pieces, they have just been set aside to avoid further damage. Right now we are in crisis mode trying to keep the car running. When we start the car, it runs for maybe 3 seconds after disengaging the starter before shutting off as if i turned the key off. The only mechanical part i havent verified is if i hooked the fuel return lines and the fuel vapor lines up correctly or if i swapped them. Either wat, i would think it wouldnt run so smooth before shutting off. Any suggestions are welcome.
     
  14. ST165-2765

    ST165-2765 Well-Known Member Donated!

    Try putting a jumper (paperclip) in the check connector between FP & B.
    When you are cranking the engine you bypass the regular fuel pump circuit
    and send power directly to the fuel pump. Once you stop cranking the engine
    electronics are suposed to take over and send power to the fuel pump.
    Jumping FP & B will provide constant power to the fuel pump.
     
  15. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    1)Fuel lines
    2)Fuel pump
    3)AFM or AFM connector
    4)Vaccum/inlet lines leaking

    Those are where I'd start, you can't swap the fuel lines afaik they're different sizes/connections
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2012
  16. TRD Ferguson

    TRD Ferguson Well-Known Member

    The fuel return line and the fuel vapor lines (one is from the regulator to the tank, the other is from the tank to the charcoal canister) are the same size and there were no clear markings on the tank as to which one was what. I did replace both of those hard lines so there were no indicators as to which one was what.

    There are no Vacuum leaks, I checked for that. It sounds and seems electronic because it just shuts off, it doesn't slowly die, or sound like its going to die, it just stops.
     
  17. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    Follow your lines and double check

    It sounds like the dreaded AFM plug fault, disconnect the AFM and it will do that every time.
    Check the plug and if thats OK, open the afm top and re-solder the contacts to the board
     
  18. TRD Ferguson

    TRD Ferguson Well-Known Member

    I am relatively certain I connected them correctly, but there was no labels on the pump lines or a diagram that indicated which lead was return and which was vapor. The pressure source is obviously a different line.

    AFM plug fault... luckily i have a backup AFM. Ill try that first and then ill open and re-soldier the connectors.

    Do you have a photo of this, or does anybody have a diagram of the AFM so that I know what the connections are supposed to look like?
     
  19. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    There was thread on this in the electric or tech sections
    I junked the charcoal canister years ago - why you using it?, it wore out decades ago
     
  20. TRD Ferguson

    TRD Ferguson Well-Known Member

    The main reason i was using it was because it was there before. I im not 100% sure of its role in this engine. In some engines, when the clutch is depressed, it immediately pulls fuel vapor from the canister to keep the engine alive, and I wasn't sure whether removing the canister would result in the engine dying between longer shifts or when coasting into the paddock, etc. Also, I wasnt sure about plugging the line running off the fuel pump and letting the vapors increase the pressure in the gas tank itself. Basically we never made it that far and we replaced everything to be the same to avoid a problem.... something that is happening anyway :-/.
     

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