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Surge tank and 2 pump fuel setup

Discussion in '3sge' started by Hazzmac92, Aug 10, 2014.

  1. Hazzmac92

    Hazzmac92 Well-Known Member

    Hey guys I have a 88 st162
    I'm halfway through doing my fuel system, have the stock pump going into 1.5 litre surge tank to a Bosch 070 high pressure in line pump to trd fuel filter to adjustable fuel pressure reg then returned to the surge tank via rail.

    My question is can I use the standard fuel pump as a lifter pump to fill my surge tank and should a put an inline filter between the in tank pump to surge tank ?
     
  2. Mafix

    Mafix Owner Staff Member Administrator Donated!

    wtf are you doing all of that for? you are making a 1000hp system for an engine that can barely make 200

    also: never return to anywhere but the tank. that fuel will be very hot and you'll overflow the surge tank while also starving the in tank pump.
     
  3. Hazzmac92

    Hazzmac92 Well-Known Member

    So what you're saying is if be better with a larger in tank replacement ?
     
  4. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    No

    Unless you are making 500hp+ you are wasting your money, all you need is a good filter, AFPR and a new pump.
    Stock pumps are all failing now, that is the weakness in your system.
    Don't return fuel to the surge tank

    To answer your questions
    Yes you can use a stock pump, if it still works 100%
    You don't need extra filters

    Why are you doing this? I've never had a fuel surge problem on any of my Celica's - even on tracks where oil surge WAS a huge problem and ate "S" motors
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
  5. Hazzmac92

    Hazzmac92 Well-Known Member

    Alright sweet, will get a trd fuel filter
    And hopefully walbro still does the direct replacement pump

    Was making 119.7kw atw but starving on fuel at 8000rpm

    Hence why I thought needs a better fuel system
     
  6. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    In that case you either have a dying pump or the wrong injectors
    Watching your FPR gauge will tell you if the pump is losing pressure

    How did you get to 8000rpm? Mine all cut fuel at around 7500rpm
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
  7. Hazzmac92

    Hazzmac92 Well-Known Member

    Injectors are stock

    I have a haltech, larger valves, larger ports, 272/264 high lift cams, mad ignition 6al and blaster 2 I can get to 8500 rpm before it gives up and a very good tuner, I'd have more power if I was running a rear muffler and not blast pipes
     
  8. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    Stock?? For me stock was 246cc (JDM)
    For those valves, ports and cams you need 315cc gen2 (JDM) injectors at least!
    Gen3's had 377cc (JDM)
    I run 87mm high comp pistons and with the CAI I need 295cc injectors.Anything less and she feels weak and won't rev out.
    For track I bump FP another 5psi with my Walbro fitted. The in tank pump also has a filter, in my case the filter kept blocking.
    Stock fuel filter is brilliant, provided you change it regularly. Be surprised how many cars are struggling here due to dirty tank & fuel filters

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Prefered method for 500hp+ motors
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
  9. Hazzmac92

    Hazzmac92 Well-Known Member

    Yeh jdm gen 1

    88mm pistons 0.7mm head gasket
    Gen2 gte block
    Heavy internal work
    Cams
    Ecu
    Adjustable cam gears


    10 months of sourcing parts haha
     
  10. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    Stock injector size?
     
  11. Hazzmac92

    Hazzmac92 Well-Known Member

    That's the one
     
  12. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    What are they?
     
  13. sillyca

    sillyca Well-Known Member Donated!

    Don't get me wrong here I'm not to sound like an arse mafix. But I thought that was the whole idea of a surge tank???? All the cars that race down here including very small hp cars including carbi cars are running surge tanks very rarely I see a car with triple Webber's with a return but all the fuel injected cars here running surge tanks with their return line to the surge tank. Then A return line off the top of the surge tank back to the main tank. That was always my understanding of how surge tanks are to be used. Regardless of how much up the car has. I could well and truely be wrong. Just what I've seen and been taught over the years that's all
     
  14. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    A surge tank is useful on tight tracks where G forces can influence fuel supply. In a high pressure EFI motor the supply of fuel is critical

    Carbs have float bowls and that acts as a mini surge tank, they don't care if small amounts of air gets in the pump

    Yes that's the correct way to do a surge tank (with an overflow), I agree with Willie on returning the warm fuel to the main tank but you can have it either way
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
  15. Mafix

    Mafix Owner Staff Member Administrator Donated!

    do you guys run open surge tanks down there? the proper way to do it is in the fuel cell. not with extra pumps and such.

    your injectors are way to small. either fit some alltrac 440s or mitsubushi 4g63 310s (better choice). you should be running an adjustable fuel pressure regulator with NO vacuum reference. at that rpm i'd set the pressure to 50psi and tune it from there. remember 310cc injectors at 50 psi are about 390cc.
     
  16. Hazzmac92

    Hazzmac92 Well-Known Member

    What injectors should I run in mine ?
    Have the 250cc ones currently
    Have adjustable fpr
     
  17. Mafix

    Mafix Owner Staff Member Administrator Donated!

    that should be fine. unless you are getting lean in high rpm. then you need to either increase fuel pressure or use a larger injector
     

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