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strange question on 3sfe and a 3sge

Discussion in '3sfe' started by malodin, Apr 23, 2007.

  1. malodin

    malodin Well-Known Member

    Hi guys, i was just thinking about this, if you can place a 3sge head on a 5sfe block, why cant you place the 3sge head on the 3sfe block(i know the 3sfe block would be weaker and all but if it is in good shape it might be a relatively easy swap for a fun little time)?
    any thoughts?
     
  2. Mafix

    Mafix Owner Staff Member Administrator Donated!

    since i've never heard it done i would assume that the 3sfe block passages don't line up with ge/gte head passages.
     
  3. malodin

    malodin Well-Known Member

    thats a possibility, i was just thinking that the 5sfe and 3sge had been done and everyone says the 5sfe is the same block as the 3sge, and was just wondering if the 3sfe was the same block as well....hm maybe something to play around with one of these days.
     
  4. 1fstgts

    1fstgts Well-Known Member Staff Member Administrator Moderator Donated!

    I was under the impression that all the 3S blocks are the same. Just the heads are diffrent.The only difference between them is on the GTE which is tapped and fitted with oil squirters. Which if you really wanted to, you could add them to a NA motor. At least according to Toysport.
     
  5. malodin

    malodin Well-Known Member

    thats what put it in my head that maybe it might be worth checking out, when i have the head off of my 3sfe i will compare it to my 3sge head.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    it would not make any sense for toyota to make a 3sFE specific block and a 3sGE specific block. the costs of R&D would outweight any sort of profit. instead, you make a 3s block, and then engineer the heads (FE and GE) to use the same oil and coolant passages.

    the primary difference between the FE and GE heads being their air flow efficiency at higher rpms. the FE head does not flow nearly as well as the GE head. beyond that, while they are both DOHC, the FE uses only a single cam gear to drive the intake cam, which has a specially designed sprocket which drives the exhaust cam.

    this does 3 things:
    1. limits the width of the head, which has a huge impact on the distance separating the cams, which leads to #2
    2. changes the angle at which the intake runners are cast for air flow in both the intake manifold and the head itself.
    3. changes the angle at which the valves rest (far less aggressive than the GE).

    many comparisons have been done pitting the 3sge vs the 5sfe. while the 5sfe does have much more torque (due to a much longer stroke), when higher rpms are reached, the 5sfe loses all of its power above 5500rpm. the 1st gen 3sge's stock redline is 7300rpm, it can breathe much better at higher rpms, and thereby pass the 5sfe despite the lack of displacement. and torque is there to get you moving off the line and from low rpm, but is far less important at higher rpms.

    beyond that, having 2 cam gears on the 3sge lends itself very nicely to doing custom and independent intake/exhaust timing with a nice set of adjustable cam gears. the 5sfe would be stuck, as any adjustment made would identically impact both intake and exhaust cams.

    not to mention the fact that its about a 1000 times easier removing both cams from a 3sge vs a 5sfe. :)

    btw - turbo'ing a 5sfe isnt that great of an idea. cast pistons and con-rods that are PUNY compared to a stock 4age rods... not a good combo. and with the limitations imposed with the 5sfe setup, the rods length/thickness is NOT ideal, and (if stock rods are used) they tend to snap pretty easily.

    simply put, engines like the 4age and 3sge are 'racing engines' whereas engines like the 5sfe are meant to fill another purpose: grocery fetching and picking the kids up from soccer practice.
     

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