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3sgelc plus turbo build project

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Maranco, Mar 18, 2013.

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  1. xups

    xups Active Member

    Hi, sorry that I write on your thread, but its about the same :)
    Witch head is better for turbo application (substantially) 1gen 3sge/gte (post -87) with t-vis, or 2gen 3sge, for custom made turbo 3SG engine. And if used 2gen 3sge head, should acis would be removed, and made custom intake?
     
    xups, Dec 2, 2013
    #21
  2. Maranco

    Maranco Active Member

    thread update

    So I finally got my flywheel dustshield from Burien Toyota. I was chomping at the bit over Thanksgiving weekend waiting for that to move forward on my build. Got back home and put the shield on, torqued my ARP flywheel bolts with some medium streng.th threadlock (75lb/ft). I didnt use the ARP lube so I didnt want to torque it all the way (85lb/ft).
    As I fit my clutch and lift my pressure plate I start rotating the plate to see which way the holes will line up. Turns out the brand new SPEC stage 3 pressure plate doesnt work on my flywheel. Luckily I have the other clutch/pressure plate setup I had ordered from clutchmaster. Identical but for 3sgte flywheel/tranny. That bolted up nicely and my transmission is mounted. I am having a hard time figuring out why my shift cables dont seem right. Something just doesnt look right. Anyways... now that that stuff is in and bolted together, I can at least start working on getting my radiator in (aluminum 2row for 3sgte) my turbo water drain attached to that, and the front mount charge cooler and oil cooler plumbed up. Then engine harness connected and drive shafts in, 3inch SS turbo-back exhaust and intake piping worked out and it will be time for a first start!!!:D
     
    Maranco, Dec 5, 2013
    #22
  3. Maranco

    Maranco Active Member

    thread update

    So... FMIC is installed and piping is done. What a fun way to spend the afternoon. I have my MAF sensor in line right before the intake manifold, switched location of OEM vacuum tube to cold air pre-turbo (autozone aluminum piping with vacuum nipple already tig'd on). I am hoping that with 500cc injectors and the FMIC, the ECU will give my engine enough fuel before it goes into anti-knock limp mode. Tomorrow is 3" SS exhaust turbo back day.
     
    Maranco, Dec 7, 2013
    #23
  4. Mafix

    Mafix Owner Staff Member Administrator Donated!

    you mounted the afm post turbo? i'm not sure if you can do this on a stock ecu. it should be pre turbo

    acis sucks. end of that story

    there is a lot of debate about shich head casting is better, but from what i've learned, you want the gen 1 head. it has smaller exhaust ports (higher velocity).
    NA this isn't what you want. gen2 turbo head (because acis sucks) with n/a gen 3 cams. or just get a beams which trumps that stuff.
     
    Mafix, Dec 8, 2013
    #24
  5. xups

    xups Active Member

    So, its better use ported (to mach T-vis inlet maniflod) 2g 3sge head, and 1g 3sge maniflod with t-vis system instead of using acis system.
    I want to save my original 1g 3sge engine, and build 2gen turbo 3SGE engine, because i have all needed parts (and more then need) except 2g 3GTE head and block.
     
    xups, Dec 9, 2013
    #25
  6. Mafix

    Mafix Owner Staff Member Administrator Donated!

    i think you have the jist of it
     
    Mafix, Dec 9, 2013
    #26
  7. Maranco

    Maranco Active Member

    Crank and no start on build

    Ok, so here is where it sits... cranks, but won't start. I bridged diagnostic terminals to see what code it throws and blinks nonstop. I have stock 3sgelc ecu, stock fuel rail, stock fpr, oside tiger high impedance injectors(500cc/43psi), afm is mounted pre-turbo at the correct angle. I can smell fuel after I crank so I know it is delivering fuel. One thing I am wondering about is injector harness and grounding intake manifold. Any thoughts? Thanks for feedback.
     
    Maranco, Dec 13, 2013
    #27
  8. Maranco

    Maranco Active Member

    image.jpg image.jpg
    Here you can see the layout of everything. I didn't want to go over the turbo exhaust housing with the compressed air but because I had to reroute the afm pre turbo I ran out of tubing and space . Also learned the hard way about protecting aluminum radiators and intercooler from damage during installation and intake routing.
     
    Maranco, Dec 13, 2013
    #28
  9. Maranco

    Maranco Active Member

    Thread update...

    So the no start issue was due to no compression. Cylinder one was registering 60, about one third what it should be. I pulled that cylinder head and put in another fresh cylinder head I was going to use for another build. That other head will have to get sent to the machine shop for a thorough check over and valve seating. The engine took a while to get started. For some reason the distributor timing was way retarded in relationship to the cam/crank timing marks on the motor. We have the distributor rotated with the bottom of each bolt hole just passed the threaded slot where it would usually be bolted down. Is it possible I put the distributor in upside down. Once we found where the sweet spot was with the distributor, the engine sounded real mean. The turbo back 3" exhaust sounds gnarly. Didn't get a chance to run it for too long though. My oil feed line from the block to turbo was loose and oil started squirting out all over the place. Very excited to hear the car finally run! Thank you guys for all the help and input on getting this project together.
     
    Maranco, Dec 17, 2013
    #29
  10. shaun4vert

    shaun4vert Well-Known Member Donated!

    With the key and slot set up on the ends of the dizzy and cam i don't think it's possible to get it upside down.

    Good work mate good to hear you have her running.I know what it's like to hear that first start up.
     
    shaun4vert, Dec 17, 2013
    #30
  11. Mafix

    Mafix Owner Staff Member Administrator Donated!

    stock cams? do you have cam gears? also you HAVE to setup timing with the diag terminials bridged. otherwise you are getting a very advanced reading.
     
    Mafix, Dec 22, 2013
    #31
  12. sillyca

    sillyca Well-Known Member Donated!

    You going to have a lot of trouble with those injectors running of the ecu unless you get an aftermarket computer. It's going to open for the same duration but because it's a larger injector it will throw heaps more fuel in the car. I know this because I also ran my 5sgte off a stock 3sge computer. And I also ran it off a stock 165 computer and it's still fueled up. You either had to be off throttle or full throttle. Otherwise on half throttle it would just fuel up. Depending on what computer if you don't have a knock sensor. It's going to cause trouble later.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    sillyca, Dec 23, 2013
    #32
  13. Maranco

    Maranco Active Member

    Thread update

    Hey Mafix, yeah stock cams. I would like to install aftermarket cams and likewise aftermarket ecu. I know there is a lot of benefits from being able to fine tune engine dynamics through degreeing the cams, especially with an aftermarket ecu. It is a matter of time and money.

    The immediate upgrades I want to make first are the oil pump... Open to suggestions for high flow/high pressure, then motor mounts and chassis bushings, front and rear shocks. Eibach springs seem to be holding up just fine. Still haven't had the time to relocate battery to trunk.

    here are some more recent pics of headlight install and tucked engine harness.
     

    Attached Files:

    Maranco, Dec 23, 2013
    #33
  14. pandafabrications

    pandafabrications Active Member Donated!

    Oil Pump

    For the oil pump, 98+ 5SFE is the way to go. I just put brand new bearings and a brand new OEM 5SFE pump in mine, shimmed with two copper washers (I forget the exact thickness but can measure some if you would like) and my oil pressure is stellar. I haven't thrown a real gauge on it yet, but I am meaning to in the next few days here to see what the actual numbers are.
     
    pandafabrications, Dec 23, 2013
    #34
  15. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    WTF? you can't shim an oil pump, what are you talking about?
     
    Stig, Dec 23, 2013
    #35
  16. pandafabrications

    pandafabrications Active Member Donated!

    Sure can, but I guess I should have explained better. Not the pump itself, but the relief valve in the housing.
     
    pandafabrications, Dec 23, 2013
    #36
  17. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    Phew, most guys can't be fussed to even clean the relief valve, it sticks and the motor goes bang.

    Adding extra oil pressure is an old wives tale, you won't benefit from it at all, the bearings only need a few psi for proper lubrication.
    Any extra is just backed up oil trying to burst your seals and pipes.
    The increase will lead to more heat and power loss trying to spin the pump.

    Racers run huge bearing clearances to get more oil flowing across them, in that spec the pump needs upgrading to keep the pressure at the same level - hence the origin of the myth that motors run better with higher oil pressures..
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2013
    Stig, Dec 23, 2013
    #37
  18. pandafabrications

    pandafabrications Active Member Donated!

    Well, after pulling apart the three 3S's I have sitting around here, all of em had bad bearings. I figured it was worth a hp or two to know that I had enough oiling. I also added an oil cooler at the same time, and I don't foresee any issues. The shims I put in I believe were only a mm or so in thickness.
     
    pandafabrications, Dec 23, 2013
    #38
  19. Stig

    Stig ST162 Guru Donated!

    I've never opened a 3S that had good bearings, I believe it's because of the holes in the rods which were a good idea in the 80's and since abandoned by everybody.
    Suzuki started the trend with their TSCC motors in the 16v GSX and they also suffer long term bearing damage, I haven't seen a Katana running in years.

    Changing to a/m rods I recommend for everybody, less weight, stronger and big end bearing pressure is more constant.
     
    Stig, Dec 23, 2013
    #39
  20. Mafix

    Mafix Owner Staff Member Administrator Donated!

    i attribute all the bearing wear to high milage. none of these engines were meant to run the milage we have.
     
    Mafix, Dec 28, 2013
    #40
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